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 Scroll down to see info on our beautiful "Blue (or B'lou) Line" genetics!

OCT. 2009
I recently wrote this article in response to a comment on Nubian Talk about the tremendous impact "Omar" could have had on the nubian breed.  Have also included comments from readers & breeders.

Recently on Nubian Talk there was a comment on the impact of Dear-Heart’s “Omar” with the wish that had he only been collected and promoted he could have had a similar genetic impact as Frosty Marvin. I felt it was important to put his impact in perspective, having owned him for most of his life, with only 11 offspring registered from him before coming into the GOLDTHWAITE herd, which produced 62 registered offspring over the 8 years we used him here. He has impacted herds across the country, and has had many line-bred offspring winning GCH, BIS, and in the top lineup at Nationals for the past several years. The ‘07 National Champion was a double grand-daughter of one of his sons, and the beautiful Saada does who dominated the top lineup at this years nationals all go back to him through his son “Othello” and his great grandson “B’lou’s Man”. Two of his son’s have sired the winning Jr Get class at Nationals, both Lunar & Merlin.

Goldthwaite Merlin was not only a son of Omar, but out of one of his SGCH grand-daughters who not only made the line-up at National Shows but won the National Show production awards. Merlin was his last son born, a full brother to Othello and to SGCH Goldthwaite Jewellia - also a top ten production doe. Currently Merlin has the greatest impact in our herd, having sired over half of our milking and aged brood does, and most are already GCH & SGCH. He is also strong in the background of almost all of our does, including our 1st pl 3 yr old SGCH Briannca at last years Nationals. (we did not show milkers this year in Sacramento.)

However, and this is the point I wish to make as we primarily breed on doe lines, he did not begin to do all this by himself! His pedigree was a hodgepodge of genetics - albeit good ones - mostly of the old Oregon lines strong in the 70’s & 80’s. He was only 2.7 % inbred, with none of the contributors even making .5%, the top one Tam-a-Rock’s Nero at 0.46! However Nero - a line-bred Hallcienda Alessandro son and Frosty Marvin (0.05%) did connect back in with the pedigrees of the does in my herd. He also goes back to Hildago, Indian Rock Scotty, Hurricane Acres, Oakwood Macarthur, and Beckwood so connected with all those lines.

Every animal in the GOLDTHWAITE herd goes back to the very first doe registered in my name - Goldthwaite Bonny Babe. At the time “Omar” entered the picture, we had line-bred Bonny to her son from a Frosty Marvin son - Caravelles Fame & Fortune, going back over and over to Oakwood Macarthur, Hurricane Acres Messengers Ton & Penny Royal, Milkywhey Garry, Chief of Evania, Tony of Evania (7x crossed in Redwood Hills Diplomat) the sire of Manzanita Houbigant - as well as Beckwood’s Hello-Happy New Year who was also behind Antony and Frosty Marvin.

These were all the same animals behind Bonny Babe - who was line-bred Evania thru Beckwood and Springhaven on the top and Hurricane Acres Messenger Ton, Oakwood Macarthur and Tony of Evania on the bottom, along with some old good but lost Oregon lines.

We kept 2 daughters from this Bonny Babe breeding to her son, Bonny B’Lovely and her sister Luscious. We were also using a fine buck Goldthwaite Bon Chapeau out of a Nero daughter (from a sister to Bonny and a Bonny Son). He was throwing gorgeous udders and GCH does, and breeding him to Lovely we came up with a doe Goldthwaite Bon Bon who was built like a table, flat & long & wide, milky & great udder - with a beautiful head but the only short ears we had ever come up with, and too short in the legs for my liking.

Along came “Omar”, a gift from Joy Southard of the Dear Heart’s herd who was retiring and dispersing the herd. She sent me a card to that effect saying he was the best buck she ever bred, his dam was an 18# milker, and to come get him! Omar had gorgeous breed character, literally flowed uphill, and imprinted that back into my Bonny line through Bon Bon & others. He did not have much strength in the rear however, but my wide, level, powerful does carried that off. I opted not to offer him AI as he needed the kind of does he found here in Bon Bon, Lovely, Luscious & Montgomery (another Bon Chapeau daughter). They are the does behind SGCH Lady Juliette, (Merlin’s dam), SGCH Talapoosa, SGCH Clematis, SGCH Maya, & SGCH Jewellia - all top producing and excellent LA scoring does. And these are the animals behind every animal in our herd today. I can visit herds across the country or look at the herd brochures and recognize the Bonny head and the long level dairy style from the influence of these does from the cross of the Bonny line with “Omar”. Together they have stamped a portion of the Nubian breed, and without the cross with the many interwoven ties back to the fine oldies, “Omar” could have been just another buck.

Subject: Re: [NubianTalk] re: Dear Heart's "Omar" & Goldthwaite Genetics... long...
Date: Oct 10, 2009 11:45 PM

You have bred some outstanding goats.  I've noticed throughout the years.  Your lines have had a great impact on the Saada herd who took the Nationals by storm this year.  You can be very proud of your accomplishments


--- In, Raspberry <raspberry@...> wrote:
> > Lovely commentary, Beverly, on Omar.
> > The story before and around him is so rich. I encourage you to release that
> > info to UCN! It may have been me who commented earlier that if only Omar had
> > been collected he would have had as much an influence on the breed as Marvin.
> > Your insight on that is helpful. Certainly it puts Omar in a bit more
> > perspective, but does not change my appreciation of him at all. In combination
> > with your homebred does, he throws the kind of general appearance and flatness
> > of bone I wish to see more of within the breed. Where do you think the
> > flatness of bone came from and levelness of topline? Certainly you are to be
> > credited for perpetuating it through selective breeding, but the Goldthwaite
> > style stands out in the breed. I am a big Goldthwaite fan! You are quite the
> > Maverick.
> >
> > Raspberry


> > To:

Re: Dear Heart's "Omar" & Goldthwaite Genetics... Dispositions
Subject: [NubianTalk] Re: Dear Heart's "Omar" 
Bevery not only breeds beautiful goats but they have wonderful dispositions. It's a case of, "what ever you want to do is o.k. with me". Carolyn



"Ah, so that is why my doe, Prairie Fire Aubergene is so sweet!

Becky selected for temperament!"



Posted by: "Bill Burghart / Darrell StJohn - ELMHAVEN"   red_tan69

Sun Oct 11, 2009 10:55 am (PDT)

Yes, I would agree. Missy, as a first freshener was very mellow, not once putting a foot in the bucket (not my "usual" history with some Nubian FF's over they decades). She was quiet and calm. Everyone should have goats that are mellow like her. I also have seen this relaxed disposition in the Goldthwaite buck Destiny. A big massive fellow, yet quiet and calm.

Those wishing to breed for elegance (breed character--that in MY opinion is phenomenal), disposition, and MILK, you cannot go wrong by utilizing the GW genetics.

- - -


Posted by: "DarleneB"   laureloakdairygoats

Sun Oct 11, 2009 11:38 am (PDT)

I agree totally with you Bill, Becky (Beverly) has absolutely phenomenal goats in my book. This is the reason my herd is absolutely full of her bloodlines, all based on the wonderful older genetics she chose to build with. My girls and boys are very well mannered and don't fight like hooligans and are so sweet and loving to their people. They are beautiful and milk well too. I for one think she did an exemplary job of building her herd in thses 36+ years that she has been a breeder and should and has been commended countless times in the ring for her contribution to the breed. I am living proof that a novice nubie can take a goat from her line with a dry leg and finish that milking doe in one season of few shows my first season showing, knowing NOTHING but having the want to as in the pride of my herd and heart SGCH GOLDTHWAITE SIOBHAN 8*M LA 90 the daughter of her famous SGCH GOLDTHWAITE CLEMATIS 7*M of course an Omar daughter. I am very proud to be able to call Becky my mentor and friend. Darlene

"Omar" questions

Posted by: ""   goldthwaitenu

Sun Oct 11, 2009 9:26 pm (PDT)

Re: Dear Heart's "Omar" & Goldthwaite Genetics...  long...

Posted by: "Karen Keys"   homesteadingoatsforever

Sun Oct 11, 2009 5:43 am (PDT)

Thankyou for that wonderful insight into Omar and his history. Do you feel that he was able to pass on his dam's milk production? You said she was an 18 pd milker, how did his daughters do in the milk pail?
Would you tell us about IM Princess? do you have any daughters/sons still in your herd from her? Would you tell us about MY BONNIE LOVE too?

In reply to Karen


>Thankyou for that wonderful insight into Omar and his history. Do you >feel that he was able to pass on his dam's milk production? You said she >was an 18 pd milker, how did his daughters do in the milk pail?

>Would you tell us about IM Princess? do you have any daughters/sons >still in your herd from her? Would you tell us about MY BONNIE LOVE too?



Briefly: Omar was presented with an Outstanding Sire Award in 2004, one of the few years I got my INBA dues in in time to participate in awards:
These were for his five daughters: (I think they are all SGCH now)
GCH Goldthwaite MAYA 3*M LA 91 / 3330 # milk, 131 bf, 118 protein
GCH Goldthwaite MY BONNY LOVE 5*M LA 90 / 3320# milk, 165 bf, 131# protein
GCH Goldthwaite CLEMATIS 7*M LA 91 2920 # milk, 143 # bf, 109# Protein
GCH Goldthwaite TALALPOOSA 7*M LA 91 / 2810 # milk,133# BF,109# Protein
SG Goldthwaite GODIVA LA91 / 6*M 2500# milk, 102# bf, 96# Protein

These are by no means all, or even the best records on these does. I know Talapoosa went Top Ten with these, and SGCH Jewellia is not on there
either and she went Top Ten. but this certificate was handy and I don't have time to pull out other records. AND all these does go back directly or closely to Bonny Babe, the closest being MY BONNY LOVE who was my all time favorite. I had her at Nationals one year and a man from some South American country asked could I take her out for him to get a photo, he had never seen milk veins on a doe like her's. Her lifetime was 15,000# in 1500 days. That one is easy for me to remember and to do the math - averaging 10# a day every day of her lifetime that she was in milk. I still have her last daughter, sired by Merlin, SGCH FELICITY, LA92, and got gorgeous kids from her this year bred back to her grandson, to whom she is now re-bred. But Bonny made her mark primarily thru her sons, especially from her half brother Lunar (sired by Omar), and the two Black Tie boys who have been widely used AI.

I have not had a Omar son producing does that milk quite so consistantly in the high numbers as he did, but I think it is more my management than the actual breeding. I still have does freshen at over 8# a milking, but I have this incurable problem of being a gypsy. I am also a Gemini. So wanting to travel all over the country and see friends conflicts a bit with raising dairy goats that need to be tended at home twice a day. SO - I take them with me, traveling to shows in Tennessee, Illinois, Idaho, Texas you name it. That tends to cut down a bit on the consistantly high production..........and actually it is the does I leave at home with other care givers who drop more than the ones I take on the road. That and that the goats are NOT my WHOLE life, and if I have something else to do they often must wait for me to get around to milking them. Like Carolyn said, they are "what ever" goats, and definately "when ever!"

As for the question I believe someone else asked about where the flat ribs and level toplines come from, they have always been there, from my very first registered doe Bonny Babe's grandmother. I think they come from all that mix of lines that I mentioned were over and over in the pedigrees.
Harvey Considine once commented to me that my does reminded him so of the old Evania animals (no wonder so impacted in their bloodlines) but that they had both ears and milk - a nice addition he thought!

I do not have anything in my herd now going back to Princess. I sold her to a dairy that sold out. She was a very productive doe, from SGCH Mkivuli who won the production awards at Nationals way back. Ray Viera had a son of hers I sent him from the dairy - but I don't think he kept any of his daughters. I also sent him a Merlin son and a majority of what he has now is from that buck.

Omar" questions

Posted by: "Karen Keys"   homesteadingoatsforever

Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:40 am (PDT)

Thankyou, as always I'm so impressed with your herd and what I can learn here on Nubian Talk from people like you :)
I can't wait till next breeding season so I can put some of these great bloodlines in the tank and start using them on my old girls.


                  Aug. 2011

GOLDTHWAITE "OPAL" N1474958 2 / 09





We got our start with the white/ “blond” Nubians back in the early ‘70s with a doe “E-Z Lovin White Arwen”. I was told that she was out of the old “AMADOR” line of all white Nubians from Arizona in the ‘60’s. Checking her out on the adgagenetics site there is none of that listed, only that her sire went back to Apple Valley Bandit and her dam to Clovertop Joseph.) The Amador line dominated the TOP-TEN in Butterfat list sometime back in that time frame, and I remember looking at the numbers. It seems their actual milk volume was in the mid-2000# range - 2400-2600, but I am not the researcher but it seemed low, as the Top-Ten herd that I started my lines with were more in the 3500-4000# range, even as 1st fresheners.

Nor did they have remarkable breed character. I remember joking with Nancy Owens of the Gold Crown Saanen herd by putting my hand on top of the head of her large eared, slightly roman nosed does, and pressing the ears down, then on top of my shorter eared blond Nubian head and pulling the ears up - and telling her that our does weren’t really all that different looking.

I bred Arwen to my first Fanta-C top ten bred buck, “Carlos” and got a lovely blond doe “Naomi Carie“. The breed character was still a bit lacking, but not the good udder, more milk, and high butterfat. We took care of the breed character problem by breeding Naomi to a line-bred Hallcienda Alessandro son, Tam-a-rock’s Nero. The resulting doe “Goldthwaite Hat Check Girl” was a beautiful, elegant, dairy type doe with gorgeous breed character as well as that gorgeous udder that I had come to expect from my blonds.

Her son “Bon Chapeau” from my linebred Goldthwaite buck “Koloma”, was the last blond buck I used in the herd. One of his very first daughter, GCH Goldthwaite Ophelia, was the dam of “Tybalt”, who was the foundation sire for the Saada herd, and is where all the blonds in that line go back to today.

All the does in my herd today go back to one of my first Chapeau daughters - Goldthwaite “BON BON”. She was brown. Chapeau would usually sire one white and one black. I phased out the white (blonds) as I always preferred the black, or brown rust over black, daughters that I had from him, in particular “Montgomery“, and “Mkivuli“, both who had white sisters that I sold.

As for the blue roans, I feel quite strongly that they are genetically related. They appeared in my herd about the same time I phased out the blonds. They seem to have the same characteristics, easy keepers, high BF milk & more of it, and lovely udders. I have all shades of roan, from very pale silver to my predominately black does with some roaning.

I call them “silver” roan, Light blue roan, blue roan, dark blue roan, black roans, and black with roaning. I guess I could get into even more colorful descriptions such as “Navy”, “Sky”, “Midnight”, etc., but I think I will stay away from that. I am more known for my “blue roans” today, where 30 years ago it was more for my blonds, that were evident in many NW herds (such as “Prairie Fire”) and others across the country.

The “Blue’s” tend to carry the same “fat” gene as the blonds. To put it mildly they are very easy keepers. I do have to watch their weight. I feel the blue gene in my herd is more dominant that was the blond, as when I breed the roans, or even one to a solid colored mate, I get almost all roans of various shades. And it seems the lighter in color they are (more white), the more they have the “blond” characteristics, and I really have to watch their weight.  The spelling we use on the "blue's" in our herd, B' LOU, goes back to the name of a blue-tic colored basset hound (who raised my daughter Carrie).  We got that name from my husband's favorite modern-dance teacher.  It has just always been a fun way of spelling "blue"!



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